Hendersoni group - need help!

[Jackie]

I started doing broader research on Red Claws and I'm stuck on this page:
http://www.wirbellose.de/klotz/ringelhand.html

My German is weak, but I'll get some help and try to figure it out. The one thing I don't understand completly is this:

'die Finger des zweiten Scherenbeines voll entwickelter Männchen zeigen eine deutliche, mit feinen Härchen bedeckte Längsrillung, von Tiwari "fluted fingers" genannt.'

What are the 'fluted fingers'? Does anyone know what this is all about?

[mikedmatthews]

open up google, paste in the web address you listed and search. click the "translate this page" link. not perfect, but it helps.

[Jackie]

I did before I asked on this forum, also tried Altavista. The translation doesn't make any sense.

[pixl8r]

Jackie,

I'm also (early) in the process of learning to read German and breeding M. dayanum.

I believe that the fluted fingers are referencing the claws, and 'mit feinen Härchen bedeckte Längsrillung' is something like, with fine hair covered pincers(?)

Hope that helps!

Last week I purchased the Rosetta Stone software and the GermanI & II lectures. I'm hoping to be as ready as possible for when the new Crusta10 book is in my hands.

[pixl8r]

Oh, I just looked at the site. There are some beautiful shrimp! I guess I should've looked at the link you posted before trying to figure out what the author is stating.

I particularly like the coloration of this one;

(Image linked directly from http://www.wirbellose.de)

It's interesting that the author states that this is color is attributed to youth (if I am reading it correctly) I would love to get some with this color and try to breed for stronger blue highlights.

[Jackie]

I highly doubt it's only about the hairy pincers, there are several species with hairy claws that don't belong to the hendersoni group.

OT - if you're into blue, check out Macrobrachium vollenhovenii, Macrobrachium rosenbergii and especially Macrobrachium hancocki

[badflash]

OT - if you're into blue, check out Macrobrachium vollenhovenii, Macrobrachium rosenbergii and especially Macrobrachium hancocki

Of those M. Rosenbergii are readily available and very interesting huge shrimp.

M. Hancocki are awsome, but they are very rare in the USA.

[wklotz]

Hi Jackie!

'die Finger des zweiten Scherenbeines voll entwickelter Männchen zeigen eine deutliche, mit feinen Härchen bedeckte Längsrillung, von Tiwari "fluted fingers" genannt.'

What are the 'fluted fingers'? Does anyone know what this is all about?

Well, let´s translate my german words to english

"The fingers of second chelipeds of full developed males are grooved and covered with fine velvety hairs, called "fluted fingers" by Tiwari.

My second photo on this page is showing this "fluted fingers", a common character of all members of the hendersoni species group.

Cheers
Werner

[Jackie]

Ahhh, I was kinda hoping the author would look into this tread
Thank you very much Werner!

[Mustafa]

Of course you could have just gotten yourself the actual *English* paper by Tiwari and read it yourself . You should be able to get it for a few dollars through "interlibrary loan" if you are not affiliated with a university.

Beats the heck out of having to translate information from German to English (or speculate what an automated, garbled internet-translation may mean), that was already translated from English to German before from the source material.

Unless you're a native speaker of German or are at least fluent at higher level German it's going to be next to impossible for someone to understand anything resembling scientific writing (or even just hobby writing). Speculating from what something might mean based on google translations or highschool level/German-101-level German classes will not get anyone anywhere. It may, and actually has in the past, spread myths, half-truths and just plain wrong information. This last point is not specifically directed at Jackie but it's just a general statement based on what I have been observing other people attemp to do lately.

If you want to get the real deal, there is no way around working your away through scientific papers...if you are so inclined that is. Werner does it, I do it and a few others (way too few people, though) with deeper interest in shrimp do it. It's really a great way to supplement one's own breeding and "travelling" (i.e. visiting natural habitats of shrimp) experience.

[Jackie]

Of course you could have just gotten yourself the actual *English* paper by Tiwari and read it yourself . You should be able to get it for a few dollars through "interlibrary loan" if you are not affiliated with a university.

Great idea! Now I feel plain stupid I haven't thought of it myself