shrimp researcher?

[hwchoy]

Hi all shrimpies!

I want to ask a very important question, at least it is very important to me, and I hope it will not taken as an offense, as none is intended.

I want to know if any member here is a researcher or has professional qualifications in identifying shrimps? There are so many names out there floating around (yes, even scientific names) that seem misattached to various shrimps. I want to know if someone has professional (or better still, authoritative) knowledge on their ID.

thanx!

meanwhile just to share some of my shrimp pictures (but please ignore the misID if any)…

[Shrimpmania]

Hey great pics you have! btw can u share wif me where u get yr shrimp? I live in singapore too ^.^ I got info on where to buy pearl , tiger , bumblebee and bee shrimp

[gnome]

Hi, Heng Wah!

Don't know if you remember me - I introduced myself via PM over at one of the planted tank sites.

To answer your question, here is an earlier thread on this site (so you don't have to scroll down and look for it):
viewtopic.php?t=281&sid=761da4359061fcb ... d897c0112a

"Mr. Tree" mentions a Prof. Liang, who can ID shrimp. You can always try e-mailing "Mr. Tree" and see if he can help you get in contact with the professor - your photos (so clear and beautiful) would probably be more than enough to make at least a few accurate ID's.

Anyway, it's really good to see you here! I'm relatively new to this site, too. Take care!

-Naomi

[hwchoy]

Hi, Heng Wah!

Don't know if you remember me - I introduced myself via PM over at one of the planted tank sites.

To answer your question, here is an earlier thread on this site (so you don't have to scroll down and look for it):
viewtopic.php?t=281&sid=761da4359061fcb ... d897c0112a

"Mr. Tree" mentions a Prof. Liang, who can ID shrimp. You can always try e-mailing "Mr. Tree" and see if he can help you get in contact with the professor - your photos (so clear and beautiful) would probably be more than enough to make at least a few accurate ID's.

Anyway, it's really good to see you here! I'm relatively new to this site, too. Take care!

-Naomi

Of course I remember you Naomi from the shrimp list but it was just too sporadic and troublesome to read from the mailing list.

Actually I know MrTree personally. He was living in Singapore for quite some time and we had some fun time in the catchment forest as we are very much into freshwater fishes as well. Being single and carefree, he has gone on many expeditions into the wilds of South-east Asia. Being chained to my kids and work, I can only go with him in spirit and enjoy the pics he brought back

Let me get up enough energy, I'll go fix up the pics of some shrimps we got from the native jungles of Singapore (yes, such a thing do still exist!) as well as a number of shrimps from the Endau-Rompin nature reserve in the Johore state of Malaysia (about 150km north of Singapore).

[hwchoy]

Hey great pics you have! btw can u share wif me where u get yr shrimp? I live in singapore too ^.^ I got info on where to buy pearl , tiger , bumblebee and bee shrimp

Hi, most shrimps gotten from the regular "specialist" LFS. many of the pics were taken a year or two ago hence the quality wasn't so good as I was still learning. At that time the shrimp craze had just started in Singapore.

[Mustafa]

Hi all shrimpies!

--Hi Heng Wah!

I want to ask a very important question, at least it is very important to me, and I hope it will not taken as an offense, as none is intended.

--Of course no offense is taken. Why would anyone be offended by this question?

I want to know if any member here is a researcher or has professional qualifications in identifying shrimps?

--I can just speak for myself. No, I am not a professional researcher since I am not making a living with that. But I guess you could call me a "serious amateur researcher." I read scientific journal articles and exchange knowledge with others who do the same (mainly in Europe). There just aren't many researchers around that specialize in decapod crustaceans such as shrimp, so even if someone is a professor in some related field, it does not mean that he/she knows anything about shrimp actually.

If you look at the vericty of scientific names, you have to look at the source of the names. If the source is (as it usually is) an importer/exporter or other dealer in shrimp, then you can usually be sure that it's inaccurate. If it comes from scientific journals, as the names I am using, then that's usually correct, unless the name is revised later on.

There are so many names out there floating around (yes, even scientific names) that seem misattached to various shrimps. I want to know if someone has professional (or better still, authoritative) knowledge on their ID.

--Of course this is going to sound biased, but you can be assured that this website *is* the most authoritative source in the english speaking world about shrimp in general and scientific names and identification in particular. Trust me .

meanwhile just to share some of my shrimp pictures (but please ignore the misID if any)…

--It's ok. Not your fault. Let me say though that almost all of the ID's are in fact wrong. If you want to hear my opinion about it, let me know.

Take care,
Mustafa

[hwchoy]

--It's ok. Not your fault. Let me say though that almost all of the ID's are in fact wrong. If you want to hear my opinion about it, let me know.

Take care,
Mustafa

it'll be good to hear, just ignore their current labels. In fact I am planning to remove all the IDs pending some assurance (usually in the form of papers) of their correctness.

I have access to fish experts, but not the shrimp experts. For that matter, I have two papers on the malayan shrimps (unfortunately in German) which seem to debate and argue on the true identity of one of the commonest shrimp available in the LFS!

If anyone would like to translate the papers into English please!!! If you have papers on shrimps could you share them with me?

[guqin]

Nice to know there are quite of people from SG here. I am asking one of my friend who works on Caridina taxonomy to come and join us in this forum. He finished his PhD on Caridina taxonomy of China in NUS and knows a thing or two about the species here in SG and surrounding regions (Peninsula Malaysia, Borneo, Thailand, etc.). Hope that he can shed some light into the complicated world of Caridina taxonomy.

Anyway, where do you guys get the shrimps? I usually get mine at Clementi.

[hwchoy]

If you look at the vericty of scientific names, you have to look at the source of the names. If the source is (as it usually is) an importer/exporter or other dealer in shrimp, then you can usually be sure that it's inaccurate. If it comes from scientific journals, as the names I am using, then that's usually correct, unless the name is revised later on.

Take care,
Mustafa

this is good! precisely what I am looking for. hope you can share some of the journals if they are available in soft copy.

[Mustafa]

it'll be good to hear, just ignore their current labels. In fact I am planning to remove all the IDs pending some assurance (usually in the form of papers) of their correctness.

--Ok..let me see what I can do just by looking at some pictures. Every shrimp that you called "Neocaridina sp." is actually a "Caridina sp." except for the Red Cherry Shrimp and the "Neocaridina sp. "Taiwan", which are actually Neocaridina sp. (both are different color variations of N. denticulata sinensis). The shrimp that you called "Palaemon scarletti" is actually a Caridina species also despite its unusual look (Caridina gracilirostris.) Palaemon species are 'Palaemonid' shrimp whereas all shrimp we usually call "algae eating shrimp" are 'Atyid' shrimp. Macrobrachium, for example, are Palaemonid shrimp. "Palaemon scarletti" is used by clueless exporters who have no idea what shrimp they just caught out of the river, but need to find some "scientific" name to be able to export these shrimp.

Palaemonetes kadiakensis (it's misspelled as "kadakensis" on your picture...no big deal ) is actually a North American shrimp that lives only in the USA and is never exported anywhere else. Your shrimp looks like an asian Palaemonetes or related species from what I can tell (look at rostrum). It could also be a related, small Macrobrachium species, although I'd go with Palaemonetes or similar species just from the picture. Judging from the large eggs I would say that this shrimp should be able to breed readily in freshwater. Where did you get this Palaemonid shrimp from?

I have access to fish experts, but not the shrimp experts. For that matter, I have two papers on the malayan shrimps (unfortunately in German) which seem to debate and argue on the true identity of one of the commonest shrimp available in the LFS!

--There just aren't all that many shrimp experts out there. The article about the "malayan" shrimp was written by one of my friends in Germany by the way. I am originally from Germany also if you wonder why I have so many friends and acquaintences there and my parents and siblings still live there.

If anyone would like to translate the papers into English please!!! If you have papers on shrimps could you share them with me?

--I would translate them, but I can hardly find the time to reply to posts here....haha. Also, all the info you find there will be on this website anyway since the Germans and I are working together when it comes to identifying species and learning more about shrimp in general.

A good journal to look into is "Crustaceana", but it's *very* expensive (something like US$800/year), so usually only Universities and Research Institutions get these kinds of scientific journals. I have access to them through a University here. There are other journals that have articles on shrimp. The best thing is to do a "journal search" on computers in a public library or university library and try to get the individual articles through the librarians. Be prepared to wade through some very heavy academic language though. Also, you will not find any pictures in these journals but tons of descriptions and measurements of different body parts of shrimp species. Not everyone is willing to read these journals voluntarily like I am...haha.

Mustafa

[Michael]

oh wow, thanks for the pics. From your third and fourth photos, I finally realized my LFS did not sell me a cherry red, I got a malayan shrimp. That is, of course, unless cherries have that distinctive white stripe down the length of the back.

[Bradimus]

That is, of course, unless cherries have that distinctive white stripe down the length of the back.

Some do.

[hwchoy]

oh wow, thanks for the pics. From your third and fourth photos, I finally realized my LFS did not sell me a cherry red, I got a malayan shrimp. That is, of course, unless cherries have that distinctive white stripe down the length of the back.

yes that is a super duper darn huge specimen. I put it in my little pond and it grew quietly in the murky waters for a year to this size and coloration. Size is about 1¼-inches.

If you seen enough of them, you can tell cherries and malayans apart just like that. some malayans have very pale stripe to the extend you can't see it. watch also for the white tipped tailfan of the malayan, in conjunction with other features.

very important also is that cherries do not change or lose colour, at least not to the extend like malayans. I do not recall seeing any cherries with a stripe, certainly never with that "horned" shaped on the back. also cherries never seem to be get anywhere near to an inch in size.

[hwchoy]

Mustafa, that "taiwan" shrimp is very very much smaller than a cherry, and have never been observed to have yellow colour in their eggs.

[Mustafa]

Mustafa, that "taiwan" shrimp is very very much smaller than a cherry, and have never been observed to have yellow colour in their eggs.

Size is not a good indicator for species. There are size differences between individuals of the same species. The wild form of the Red Cherry Shrimp can look kind of like your shrimp (very variable in coloration) and has green or greenish eggs. Red Cherries are not wild occuring shrimp but are just a color variation of Neocaridina denticulata sinensis. The yellow color of the eggs is very unusual among any shrimp species. Brown or green is usual color for shrimp eggs (sometimes orange too). S

Of course Taiwan has more species than just N. denticulata sinensis, so there is a possibility that it's a different species. But this is as far as you can go with a picture alone.

Mustafa