My Shrimp Setup.

giddygid · Post by **giddygid** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:59 am

hi guys!
just wanna share with you a couple of pictures of my shrimp tank. please feel free to give comments on how I may improve the setup and conditions of the tank. my apologies for the lack of clarity, my digicam seems to be out of focus when it zooms in on the shrimp!

retardo · Post by **retardo** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:36 am

nice tank! i esp like the piece of root-looking driftwood in the center. is it real or fabricated? i'd like to find something like that for my tank. it would add a lot of character, make it more interesting.

btw, what kind of mesh are u using for the moss you have on the bottom. it looks metallic and may possibly erode and cause problems in the future... u may know better than i tho.

btw, where r u located?

Pconnieae · Post by **Pconnieae** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:33 pm

Hi,

It is a really nice setup. Your driftwood is beautiful

.

How many species do you keep in that tank? I can see cherries, bees, CRS and green neon shrimps.

I wouldn't keep CRS and bee shrimps in the same tank because of risk of crossbreeding. It would be a pity because it seems that your shrimps are 'A grade' shrimps.

giddygid · Post by **giddygid** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:25 am

retardo wrote:nice tank! i esp like the piece of root-looking driftwood in the center. is it real or fabricated? i'd like to find something like that for my tank. it would add a lot of character, make it more interesting.

btw, what kind of mesh are u using for the moss you have on the bottom. it looks metallic and may possibly erode and cause problems in the future... u may know better than i tho.

btw, where r u located?

thank you! it's a real piece of driftwood, and i think it makes the tank look a whole lot more interesting and natural.

i'm using stainless steel mesh..so it's just fine!

located in singapore!

giddygid · Post by **giddygid** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:26 am

Pconnieae wrote:Hi,

It is a really nice setup. Your driftwood is beautiful .

How many species do you keep in that tank? I can see cherries, bees, CRS and green neon shrimps.

I wouldn't keep CRS and bee shrimps in the same tank because of risk of crossbreeding. It would be a pity because it seems that your shrimps are 'A grade' shrimps.

thanks!
besides all those species, i have a diamond shrimp.

not too sure if they'll cross breed though, 'cos i consulted the shop owner. anyone has any ideas on this?

Post by **Mustafa** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:51 am

The "diamond" shrimp (=bee shrimp) and the Crystal Reds are the same species, so they will breed with each other. If you get Tiger Shrimp, they will crossbreed with both of those species, too.

Mustafa

giddygid · Post by **giddygid** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:23 am

oh no, then should i separate the bees and crystals to prevent inbreeding?

Post by **Mustafa** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:57 am

giddygid wrote:oh no, then should i separate the bees and crystals to prevent inbreeding?

Yes, if you want to keep both color variations pure you should separate them. Otherwise, after several generations, you will only have black and white shrimp instead of red and white.

Mustafa

Used · Post by **Used** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 11:21 am

What size tank are they in?

blenny · Post by **blenny** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:28 pm

Mustafa wrote:
giddygid wrote:oh no, then should i separate the bees and crystals to prevent inbreeding?
Yes, if you want to keep both color variations pure you should separate them. Otherwise, after several generations, you will only have black and white shrimp instead of red and white.

Mustafa

keep a small number of bee with respect to the number of CRS to prevent inbreed problems and to ensure better color.

I don't get all black after generations.

Black x red = blackred.
blackred x blackred = black, red and blackred.
blackred x red = red, blackred

see, you still have red, afterall, no problem at all.

Post by **Mustafa** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:12 pm

Yes, there is a problem. It takes several generations for the reds to disappear. The red coloration is recessive. It's really just simple genetics.

Black crossed with red does *not* produce "blackred." The first generation will be all black. However, all the black shrimp will be split for the red gene. So...in the second generation you will start seeing red shrimp again...but much fewer in number than black shrimp....then in the 3rd generation it will be even fewer in number. This continues with the generations.

It's the rules of genetics with regards to recessive traits. I did not make them up.

Mustafa

Janis · Post by **Janis** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:42 pm

I absolutely love genetics so here's a little genetics lesson for those who are interested.

Each shrimp with get a colour gene from its mom and a colour gene from its dad. The red shrimp will have two mutant genes that don't make any colour so the red colour underneath will show through. Let's call the dysfunctional gene "b". So a red shrimp would be bb (one "b" from mom, one "b" from dad). A black shrimp that hasn't been bred with any red shrimp would have two normal black genes, BB.

Therefore, just like Mustafa said, if you mix a black shrimp (BB) with a red shrimp (bb) all you babies will be black (Bb) because they've still got one normal gene that is able to make the black colour. When you breed those Bb babies together you're only going to get offspring that are 1/4 red (bb). The other 3/4 will be black (BB or Bb).

Lucklily, if you separate out all the red ones you can make a pure red population again. Your black population will still have the occasional red one popping up, but you can't do much about that except remove them to the red tank.

It gets more complicated if more than one gene is contributing to colour, but I hope this helped make the point. I know, I know, just what you wanted to spend Saturday thinking about! Sorry!

Janis

Post by **Mustafa** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:04 pm

Thanks for the more detailed explanation, Janis.

I kept it more simple on purpose not knowing how much people understand about simple Mendelian Genetics.

Thanks for being more specific, though. I think in this case it was the better choice. I should have an article about this in the "Articles" section anyway since this question keeps coming up.

Take care,
Mustafa

Polypterus · Post by **Polypterus** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:13 pm

Hi !

Anyway, I don't think it's that easy... first of all - we cannot be sure how close the relation of Caridina sp. "Crystal Red" as an mutation of Caridina serrata (estimated but also not sure) and Caridina cf. breviata "Hummel"(bumble bee) is. So there would be a lot of mixing result, but we can only see the colour.
I also put one year ago some red Crystal and Bumble bees together - now I have a lot of red Crystal, many Bumble bees and a few looking nearly like bumble bee, but the black stripes are a little red around the stomach. Also that (supposed) mixed ones have not so clear stripes.

In summer I gonna seppared them to three tanks - and see what gonna happen to the mixed ones

Here one link I found about hybrid of C. serrata and bumble bee :
http://www.ara-amazona.at/aquaristik_002hybriden.htm

Flori

Polypterus · Post by **Polypterus** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:23 pm

http://www.wirbellose.de/arten.cgi?acti ... &artNo=053

although here some of the bumble bees look simillar the one O thought that it would be mixed ones. In case they really mix together it's not best, cause there is more mixing in species that we not surelly know yet.