Mystery shrimp deaths

Felixsailor · Post by **Felixsailor** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:59 am

Hi everyone - sorry to dive straight in with a question. But we have a conundrum.

My partner, who has been keeping shrimp for a year+ now has just set up a new tank, mixed fish and invertebrates. She is usually very successful.

The parameters in the tank seem great ammonia, nitrite are zero and nitrate is 8ppm. Ph looks good at 7.1 with kH=3 and gH=5. Six days ago she put 6 C. Japonicas in but they died over night. Yesterday Jules tried again - this time she put 6 new ones in she got from the LFS plus this time 5 which she transferred from another tank.

This morning we found the shrimp looking very listless on the substrate. There are a number of killies in there but they look great. We rescued the shrimp from the tank and placed them in another established tank and they all bounced back - so this time they havent bitten the dust!

Anyone got any ideas?

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:42 am

How long has the tank cycled?
Where did the water come from? If tap did you use someting that breaks down chloramine? Sure sounds like something in the water.

Felixsailor · Post by **Felixsailor** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:54 am

Ahh! Tank cycle. The tank had probably only been setup for a week. Possibly two. I know it should have been much longer (I usually leave them for two months or so) however we use a Tetra product, which we used in this case, where we have never experienced the ammonia, nitrate spike. I know its bizzare but this is the third tank we've set up and not had new tank syndrome. Plus we transferred substantial bio filter medium from one of the tanks we were taking down into the trickle filter of this one.

That aside, I am meticulous when it comes to testing and recording results - and this tank had been tested on a daily basis and the results recorded in a database and charted. The ammonia and nitrate curves are flatlined, the nitrate curve is falling - and all events (such as the addition of medication and water treatment) are also noted as events on the chart.

All fish (that include some sensitive ones) are doing great.

The water company doesnt use chloramine (theyre too tight to do invest in it thank goodness) nor do they flouridate the water. Jules also uses RO water at times and either way she uses a water treatment product during changes.

I can see nothing unusual that I would normally test for.

Now, the only difference that I can see between the other three successful invertebrate tanks, and this disaster is the introduction of plant food. I noticed that one of them contained Copper - but in tiny amounts.

Im baffled - the ones we rescued this morning have been evacuated to new homes and they have bounced right back even though they were lying on their backs kicking their little legs in the air!

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:35 pm

Sounds like you've hit on it then, the plant food. I'd say there is something in there that shrimp can't handle. I've found that companies don't always list everything they put in their stuff.

TKD · Post by **TKD** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:57 pm

Try testing for copper and for kelated iron.

That is what killed my shrimp originaly.

Here are some links...
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viewtopic.php?t=852&highlight=

TKD

Felixsailor · Post by **Felixsailor** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:56 pm

Nuts - I didnt think of iron! Copper yes. And its true to say that most aquatic plant fertilizers have that much of the stuff in it they could move a compass. I will drop into our LFS tomorrow and get a test kit.

It has to be that - I cant see any other deviation from our normal results.

I do wish these companies would put ingredient lists on labels - there should be some legislation to force that in the same way that we have food lablelling standards. Its not just an invertebrate thing either is it? Rays and mormyrids dont take too kindly to a dollop of copper either.

Still hands up this time I didnt think about other heavy metals.

Thanks for all your help guys. Much appreciated.

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:04 pm

There are shrimp tested ferts out there that are not so heavy handed with iron. or copper. They have both, enough to help the plants but not enough to zorch the shrimp. Florish is one. I'm using a home- brew suppliment from a shrimp keeper in Singapore. If you want to contact me off line I'll give you the link. Mustaffa doesn't approve of commercial links. This guy has really lovely aquariums and keeps shrimp, so I know he knows his stuff. So far so good with me. I've been uneing it for several months with no problems.