This is a test to see if we can run a thread on who to mostly avoid and who you have had good luck going through for quality captive bred shrimp.
I have my least favorite but I'm not up for another bash session on the folks down south if we cannot post places that are good to go through.
I know I can PM and hopefully find back channels that are still open where they got their shrimp but this would be easier to the new people coming to the site to go to the right place and save them the hassle of getting crispy/dead/decaying shrimp or shrimp doomed to die.
Would like a reply
Good and BAD
Moderator: Mustafa
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Shrimp&Snails
- Shrimpoholic
- Posts: 400
- Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:12 am
Skewlboy this site is maintained and owned by Mustafa who sells shrimp here http://www.petshrimp.com/store.html (see the Petshrimp Store link on the left).
In the rules it states
If you've had a bad experience buying shrimp then i'm sure it would be ok to post about it as long as it's not slanderous or anything.[/url]
In the rules it states
If you want to buy some fabulous shrimp do it through Mustafa and please understand why these rules are in place. If you want to PM members in your area about buying/selling shrimp that's up to you but please keep it off the main board.The following rules must be adhered to when participating in the Petshrimp.com forums. If rules are blatantly broken the rule breaker will be issued a warning or be banned from the forums at the discretion of the forum owner or moderators:
1. Offers of animals for sale or inquiries about animals for sale (i.e. "wanted" ads/inquiries) are not allowed. This is a discussion forum and not a marketplace.
If you've had a bad experience buying shrimp then i'm sure it would be ok to post about it as long as it's not slanderous or anything.[/url]
"Skewlboy", you are knowingly breaking the rules and don't really seem to care about it. So, this is an official warning...any further rule violations and action will be taken.
I have tried to explain to skewlboy, who PMed me with TWO bad experiences with Azgardens and his most recent failure (i.e. dead shrimp) with "joesaquatics" asking me for "good sources for bumblebee shrimp" that he is going to have similar experiences (varying in severity of course) with anyone who imports shrimp. There are simply no breeders around here in North America who are selling these shrimp or many of the others. The only shrimp that are *regularly* bred and sold by various hobbyists are red cherry shrimp. All the others that people offer in various places are all imported.
Of course you can get lucky and a halfways "good" batch of imports comes into the country and then you get double-lucky and the importer/seller actually knows how to keep the shrimp properly, so you get halfways ok shrimp that might actually survive, but reality is that MOST of the time your shrimp will die sooner or later, usually within days or weeks. This applies to even so called "hardy" shrimp like red cherry shrimp, if they are imported animals. Even if you have all live arrivals, most, if not all of your shrimp will die over the next few days or weeks MOST OF THE TIME (again, you might get lucky...but then you might also go gambling with that luck and make a fortune).
That's reality right now and I can't do anything about it. I am not going to go around and recommend places that sell imported shrimp. Heck, you'd think that people would realize that there is a reason why I don't sell ANY imported shrimp at all. I know the same sources as anyone else (and even more sources in more countries actually) and could just as well fill my tanks with half-dead shrimp, hoping to sell them and make a profit before all (or the majority anyway) die on me. Why don't I do it? Because I have a conscience. I don't like to do business where it's considered normal that huge numbers of animals have to die so I can make some money. Many sellers/importers don't seem to have a problem with their animals dying (until maybe someone complains, but even then most blame the complainer) but I do....out of principle.
I have asked "skewlboy" to post his experiences here as it would help others, but he refuses to do that, as he has indicated above. Of course I can't force people to help others by warning them of extra-bad apples, but I think that it's quite inconsiderate to have had THAT many bad experiences and not tell others about it.
In any case, as one can readily tell, I get irked when people don't want to accept that there just aren't any breeder sources (as opposed to import sources) for many shrimp in the US (and most other places) yet. Heck, i've been trying to establish a large captive-bred population of bumblebees for a while now, but having to start with sub-par, imported animals did not make it that easy for me either. So, if you detect a "slight" negativity about imported animals in my posts here, then it's because I have had to see literally thousands of them die, many of them even before I unpacked them from their bag. So, I speak from experience here. Do I want new shrimp keepers to go through the same experience? Of course not. I'd recommend *captive-bred* red cherries for them to start out with and go from there. If you still want to try out shrimp like bumblebees then you just have to get used to the fact that most of the shrimp you order will die sooner or later. You're going to spend lots of money on these imported shrimp and maybe end up with nothing. So, it might work out or it might not. But I definitely do NOT recommend going through that to the average shrimp hobbyist out there. But it's a free country and anyone can do whatever he/she wants. I'm just stating my opinion.
So, let's all be patient and let the shrimp hobby grow. If you want to buy imported animals, then you have to take the consequences (MOST animals die sooner or later). That's just reality here...I'm not making anything up. I am not hiding any "good" sources from anyone. In fact, quite a few people out there hold a grudge against me because I am telling it like it really is. I'll take that over a bad conscience any day. The future of the shrimp hobby will be in the hands of breeders...that's a fact.
Nuff said.
I have tried to explain to skewlboy, who PMed me with TWO bad experiences with Azgardens and his most recent failure (i.e. dead shrimp) with "joesaquatics" asking me for "good sources for bumblebee shrimp" that he is going to have similar experiences (varying in severity of course) with anyone who imports shrimp. There are simply no breeders around here in North America who are selling these shrimp or many of the others. The only shrimp that are *regularly* bred and sold by various hobbyists are red cherry shrimp. All the others that people offer in various places are all imported.
Of course you can get lucky and a halfways "good" batch of imports comes into the country and then you get double-lucky and the importer/seller actually knows how to keep the shrimp properly, so you get halfways ok shrimp that might actually survive, but reality is that MOST of the time your shrimp will die sooner or later, usually within days or weeks. This applies to even so called "hardy" shrimp like red cherry shrimp, if they are imported animals. Even if you have all live arrivals, most, if not all of your shrimp will die over the next few days or weeks MOST OF THE TIME (again, you might get lucky...but then you might also go gambling with that luck and make a fortune).
That's reality right now and I can't do anything about it. I am not going to go around and recommend places that sell imported shrimp. Heck, you'd think that people would realize that there is a reason why I don't sell ANY imported shrimp at all. I know the same sources as anyone else (and even more sources in more countries actually) and could just as well fill my tanks with half-dead shrimp, hoping to sell them and make a profit before all (or the majority anyway) die on me. Why don't I do it? Because I have a conscience. I don't like to do business where it's considered normal that huge numbers of animals have to die so I can make some money. Many sellers/importers don't seem to have a problem with their animals dying (until maybe someone complains, but even then most blame the complainer) but I do....out of principle.
I have asked "skewlboy" to post his experiences here as it would help others, but he refuses to do that, as he has indicated above. Of course I can't force people to help others by warning them of extra-bad apples, but I think that it's quite inconsiderate to have had THAT many bad experiences and not tell others about it.
In any case, as one can readily tell, I get irked when people don't want to accept that there just aren't any breeder sources (as opposed to import sources) for many shrimp in the US (and most other places) yet. Heck, i've been trying to establish a large captive-bred population of bumblebees for a while now, but having to start with sub-par, imported animals did not make it that easy for me either. So, if you detect a "slight" negativity about imported animals in my posts here, then it's because I have had to see literally thousands of them die, many of them even before I unpacked them from their bag. So, I speak from experience here. Do I want new shrimp keepers to go through the same experience? Of course not. I'd recommend *captive-bred* red cherries for them to start out with and go from there. If you still want to try out shrimp like bumblebees then you just have to get used to the fact that most of the shrimp you order will die sooner or later. You're going to spend lots of money on these imported shrimp and maybe end up with nothing. So, it might work out or it might not. But I definitely do NOT recommend going through that to the average shrimp hobbyist out there. But it's a free country and anyone can do whatever he/she wants. I'm just stating my opinion.
So, let's all be patient and let the shrimp hobby grow. If you want to buy imported animals, then you have to take the consequences (MOST animals die sooner or later). That's just reality here...I'm not making anything up. I am not hiding any "good" sources from anyone. In fact, quite a few people out there hold a grudge against me because I am telling it like it really is. I'll take that over a bad conscience any day. The future of the shrimp hobby will be in the hands of breeders...that's a fact.
Nuff said.
Last edited by Mustafa on Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Neonshrimp
- Master Shrimp Nut
- Posts: 2296
- Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 5:37 pm
- Location: California, USA
Thanks Mustafa for sharing with us how it really is in the shrimp business right now. Even though I would like to raise a variety of different shrimp I am going to wait until there is a healthy domestic supply of shrimp. By the way, how are the "Amber Shrimp" coming along 
More people will readily want to share their sucesses rather than failures. But people who really want to help eachother will share the bad as well as the good. Well the shrimp hobby is still young and I am excited to see what the future has in store
More people will readily want to share their sucesses rather than failures. But people who really want to help eachother will share the bad as well as the good. Well the shrimp hobby is still young and I am excited to see what the future has in store
Look, I'm not trying to make waves or start a thriving marketplace for one place or another.
If Mustafa would have posted the rest of my PM (private) being the main point of the message, you would have noted that my goal was to find a place or person who was raising captive bred shrimp.
I consider myself an ethical person, fed up with overseas/dead dying animals. I wanted a place that I figured I could trust and sought a person who I believed had many more contacts than myself for this choice (being Mustafa). I did PM him. As for my post, it was directed at an open conversation about both good and bad experiences, mostly looking for someone who has had a good experience as all that seems to be allowed for posting is slams against places other than only this "marketplace" w/ Mustafa. Understandably if he did have them available I would not be asking these questions.
Please understand my frustration and please understand that all I wanted in all of this was the ability to have a democratic conversation w/ people being able to say what they would like.
Also see the below and see my side of the hypocricy:
Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:58 am Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skewlboy this site is maintained and owned by Mustafa who sells shrimp here http://www.petshrimp.com/store.html (see the Petshrimp Store link on the left).
In the rules it states
Quote:
The following rules must be adhered to when participating in the Petshrimp.com forums. If rules are blatantly broken the rule breaker will be issued a warning or be banned from the forums at the discretion of the forum owner or moderators:
1. Offers of animals for sale or inquiries about animals for sale (i.e. "wanted" ads/inquiries) are not allowed. This is a discussion forum and not a marketplace.
If you want to buy some fabulous shrimp do it through Mustafa and please understand why these rules are in place. If you want to PM members in your area about buying/selling shrimp that's up to you but please keep it off the main board.
Likely this discussion will get me banned, although it is not what I intended. I just wanted a chance to have an open conversation w/o trashing businesses for practices that I was attempting to avoid at this time (captive bred). I believe that w/o stating the good or bad in my above message I followed rules 1-5 unlike Shrimp&Snails who blatantly made a statement involving sale of shrimp in this thread. Please understand how I don't understand the difference on what I posted versus this.
My intent was pure, unfortunately I know it will not become reality.
Signing off.
If Mustafa would have posted the rest of my PM (private) being the main point of the message, you would have noted that my goal was to find a place or person who was raising captive bred shrimp.
I consider myself an ethical person, fed up with overseas/dead dying animals. I wanted a place that I figured I could trust and sought a person who I believed had many more contacts than myself for this choice (being Mustafa). I did PM him. As for my post, it was directed at an open conversation about both good and bad experiences, mostly looking for someone who has had a good experience as all that seems to be allowed for posting is slams against places other than only this "marketplace" w/ Mustafa. Understandably if he did have them available I would not be asking these questions.
Please understand my frustration and please understand that all I wanted in all of this was the ability to have a democratic conversation w/ people being able to say what they would like.
Also see the below and see my side of the hypocricy:
Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:58 am Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skewlboy this site is maintained and owned by Mustafa who sells shrimp here http://www.petshrimp.com/store.html (see the Petshrimp Store link on the left).
In the rules it states
Quote:
The following rules must be adhered to when participating in the Petshrimp.com forums. If rules are blatantly broken the rule breaker will be issued a warning or be banned from the forums at the discretion of the forum owner or moderators:
1. Offers of animals for sale or inquiries about animals for sale (i.e. "wanted" ads/inquiries) are not allowed. This is a discussion forum and not a marketplace.
If you want to buy some fabulous shrimp do it through Mustafa and please understand why these rules are in place. If you want to PM members in your area about buying/selling shrimp that's up to you but please keep it off the main board.
Likely this discussion will get me banned, although it is not what I intended. I just wanted a chance to have an open conversation w/o trashing businesses for practices that I was attempting to avoid at this time (captive bred). I believe that w/o stating the good or bad in my above message I followed rules 1-5 unlike Shrimp&Snails who blatantly made a statement involving sale of shrimp in this thread. Please understand how I don't understand the difference on what I posted versus this.
My intent was pure, unfortunately I know it will not become reality.
Signing off.
I'm not qualified to voice an opinion on the rights or wrongs of the op's intent. FWIW I've seen a few threads that contained people voicing concerns with particular places of business...I think the problem arises when we start essentially advertising for other sellers/businesses on Mustafa's own site. From his posts it's quite clear that he is very passionate about the hobby and the way in which it goes forward as it is in its extreme infancy, and I think it is for that reason that statements about other vendors is touchy here.
As someone that has just begun to take an interest in these fascinating creatures, I can certainly relate to the op's desire to find worthy outlets to purchase from. I at least am used to being able to "shop around" to be able to find pretty much anything I need/want......unfortunately this doesn't seem to be the case with most freshwater inverts as Mustafa's response indicates.
Mustafa--having not been around long enough to know what your cycle is like for the shrimp that you typically sell could you answer a couple of questions? 1) Many of the varieties on the store page are out of stock...Do you have any indication of when you might have enough of a supply to offer them for sale again? 2) Are there other varieties that we could possibly see offered this year that are not currently listed on the store page?
Sorry if I'm posting questions that have been answered already, and also for straying a bit from topic. Hopefully I managed to avoid stepping on anyone's toes
As someone that has just begun to take an interest in these fascinating creatures, I can certainly relate to the op's desire to find worthy outlets to purchase from. I at least am used to being able to "shop around" to be able to find pretty much anything I need/want......unfortunately this doesn't seem to be the case with most freshwater inverts as Mustafa's response indicates.
Mustafa--having not been around long enough to know what your cycle is like for the shrimp that you typically sell could you answer a couple of questions? 1) Many of the varieties on the store page are out of stock...Do you have any indication of when you might have enough of a supply to offer them for sale again? 2) Are there other varieties that we could possibly see offered this year that are not currently listed on the store page?
Sorry if I'm posting questions that have been answered already, and also for straying a bit from topic. Hopefully I managed to avoid stepping on anyone's toes
Calling people "hypocrits" for no reason is not going to help you find captive-bred shrimp as you have stated above.skewlboy wrote: Also see the below and see my side of the hypocricy:
Two points:Likely this discussion will get me banned, although it is not what I intended. I just wanted a chance to have an open conversation w/o
trashing businesses for practices that I was attempting to avoid at this time (captive bred).
1. there are no large scale shrimp breeders YET in the US (see above post), hence it's pointless to have an "open" conversation about where to acquire captive bred shrimp. Rest assured that this website and/or a future shrimp association WILL have a trading/exchange post once there is a critical mass of breeders out there.
2. NOBODY has ever ever trashed a business here. This is why people like you irk me and this is why, yes, I do not want people like you in my forum. You twist things around and try to make positive things look like they are negative. People have described their bad experiences with businesses in all detail. This has helped others avoid such shady businesses. Other forums delete any mention of bad experiences immediately, but leave posts about self-promotional praises from some of the shady-sellers.
You don't understand it for the same reason why you did not understand my PMs about the non-availability of captive-bred shrimp in the US. You just don't want to see things the way they are. I'll make it simple. Shrimp&Snails only pointed out what's already obvious on this website. Heck, there is a HUGE link on the left that says "Petshrimp Store". Even better, there is a HUGE address in the address bar of your web browser that says "http://www.petshrimp.com". You get the hint? Pointing out that this website sells shrimp is like pointing out that the sky is blue. It's obvious. Shrimp&Snails is not trying to sell anything or is asking for any shrimp for sale. Nor did she post any commercial links to *other* websites. She did not break any rules. How hard is that to understand?I believe that w/o stating the good or bad in my above message I followed rules 1-5 unlike Shrimp&Snails who blatantly made a statement involving sale of shrimp in this thread. Please understand how I don't understand the difference on what I posted versus this.
In any case, I am closing this thread for good. I should have deleted it or closed it right away...my bad. In fact, I am probably going to add a rule that will explicitly state that you will get immediately BANNED if you come on this website as a NEWBIE and start criticizing things left and right, without even having contributed much or anything of value. This has been getting out of hand as of late and it will stop right here. I already had to delete two threads today of people basically saying they don't like things the way they are here and one of them even throwing around the "Nazi" word. If you like the rules, you stay, if not, you leave. Insulting people and spreading negativity about the site is not going to get you or anyone anywhere. The rules work great for what they are intended...focusing the discussion on keeping and breeding shrimp.
To hoddit...I will reply to your post on PM as the open forum is not the place to talk about my inventory and future availability. Despite "skewlboy's" hypocrisy accusations I have never done that in this forum.