too many waterchanges?

[Ecir]

Is it possible to do too many water changes? will it effect the bacteria growth?

A while ago I read about how a few of you keep very thin substrates and don't vacume it just do water changes so I removed some of my gravel and have just been doing water changes. I've been doing about 20-25% every couple of days (it's just a 10 gallon so it's easy).

Should I ease up on water changes or since I have good water quality just keep doing what i'm doing?

Ecir

[Neonshrimp]

Hi Eric, have you seen any changes in the shrimp since you began and how long have you been doing this? I do frequent water changes also, but only about 10% each time.

[zapisto]

i have a 3.5g full of cherry , all age , probably more than 100
no gravel , bare bottom , with half hand of crush coral , java moss
i am doing 15 to 20% water change 3 times a week.
they are reproduce like rabbit and eat like pig

[BM]

As long as your substrates and filter media (i.e. sponge) are mature, then it shouldn't be a problem.
I use to have a 10g community tank with like 7 small fish and snails with a thin layer of gravel. I would scoop out about 750ml of water (one scroop using one of those juice containers with the top cut off) every day and fill it back up with the same amount of tap water with a drop of Prime. Everything was fine, the fish were happy as clams and the water was clear as air. It's not as much as your 20-25% every couple of days, but should be fine.

[badflash]

I do a 50% water change each week. No issues, but I don't disturb the bios filter when I do.

[Baby_Girl]

Yes, nearly all your nitrifying bacteria reside on surfaces (biofoam, gravel, the tank, ornaments, etc.). The only time you will have good bacteria floating around in the water column in appreciable number is during the initial cycle, when you will often see cloudy water. The haziness is the bacterial bloom, looking for a place to settle.

By vacuuming your gravel, you are also not going to harm the bacteria. The amount of suction a siphon produces is simply too low to rip the buggers off the gravel

Frequent smaller water changes are preferable, to prevent huge changes in water chemistry which are very stressful to shrimp.

[Ecir]

Hi Everyone and thanks for all the feedback,

Neonshrimp: It's Ecir not Eric , I started doing the frequent water changes over a month ago, it just seemed conveneint to do one bucket full as a waterchange. My Cherries are all happy healthy and breeding, no seeming change in behavior.

Zapisto: My tank is 10g about 40 cherries many still juvies and babies, one bamboo an apple snail and some Ottos. I have all sorts of stacked rocks, driftwood and fake plants for them to climb on with a thin base of gravel(crushed coral in the filter) I'd love to get some Java moss or Najas grass but can't find any locally yet...


BM: The tanks been fully cycled for ages the only thing I've changed is water changes more often.

Badflash: Other then rinsing the sponge of every month or so I leave the filter media alone too... should I even bother rinsing it? I use an aquaclear with a sponge on the intake. I just thought rinsing it would keep me from losing too much waterflow... opinions?

Baby_Girl: The main reason I decided to get rid of most of my substrate and stop vacuming it(if possible) was because it was such a pain in the butt, I have a lot of rocks, plants and driftwood that were always in the way and I didn't want to stress all the shrimpy out by spending tons of time digging around. As for my water chemistry it's as solid as a rock

Anyways, thanks again everyone.

Ecir

[badflash]

What I do with the sponge is squeeze it out in aquarium water from the water change. If you don't, after a while the flow gets blocked. My filter floats up when it gets full, so it is easy to tell.

The squeezing water is super for starting a new tank. It is ready for shrimp or fish right away. I just wait for the water to clear and go. Never had a problem.

[Neonshrimp]

Does that deplete the sponge of the beneficial bacteria or not? It is a good idea to start a new tank with the sponge water, thanks

[YuccaPatrol]

Does that deplete the sponge of the beneficial bacteria or not? It is a good idea to start a new tank with the sponge water, thanks

The bacteria will still be clinging to all the surface are of the sponge, even after squeezing it in the tank water. Certainly, some bacteria is lost by doing this, but it reproduces so incredibly quickly that it is not an issue at all.

[Mikee]

Best prob to do 10% or so like 3 times a week although i just do 30-40% every week or so with no problems. It wont affect the bacteria growth really as long as your filter has been runnning for a long time and has bacteria growth or if you use a sponge filter that is well aged then it also wont be a problem. As long as you clean the sponge using the water from your tank (cool water) you will always still have bacteria but dont use cold or hot water because it will kill the bacteria.

[Baby_Girl]

Baby_Girl: The main reason I decided to get rid of most of my substrate and stop vacuming it(if possible) was because it was such a pain in the butt, I have a lot of rocks, plants and driftwood that were always in the way and I didn't want to stress all the shrimpy out by spending tons of time digging around. As for my water chemistry it's as solid as a rock

Ecir,
Having less gravel is not a problem Bare substrate is not advisable with shrimp, as their feet need something to grab onto. I missed the part where you said you had a thin layer of substrate. In that case, I guess you could forgoe the vacuuming I would recommend maybe using your hand to fan the substrate to get the poop and leftover food to float around so you can suck it up when you do water changes. Since you've got a bio-sponge, the lack of gravel should not be a problem

I was just trying to make the point that gravel vacuuming will not remove your beneficial bacteria

Good work!

Oh, yeah, and make sure you rinse your sponge with tank water or dechlorinated water. Otherwise tap water will kill the bacteria also. I don't rinse it with every water change, just check it to make sure it's not too clogged as mentioned. The sponge needs good water flow going through it, as the bacteria need oxygen to do their thing

[DonD]

I know I am coming into this one a few days late, but wanted to make a few comments.
To answer the main question, you can not do too many water changes. The more frequently you do them, and the larger the volume, the better. This prevents the water chemistry from changing as you are replenishing it before natural process can drive down the KH and pH, and also prevents build up of nitrates and other dissolved solids.
As for the bacteria bloom mentioned, that is actually a different set of bacteria, NOT the nitrifiers. What you are seeing with that are heterotrophic bacteria. These are free swimming bacteria that break down organics such as excess food, dead fish etc.
When a new tank is set up, they, like the nitrifying bacteria (which are called autotrophic) are not present in any vast numbers. They need food. So when you introduce fish or shrimp and start feeding them, there is a drastic increase in the levels of dissolved organics. So, like any other organism, these bacteria will begin to reproduce according to the available food source. Considering these guys reproduce once every 20 minutes, and they now have a lot of food available, POOF, cloudy tank.
It is a common, and understandable misconception that this is a result of the nitrifying bacteria developing. However, the nitrifiers reproduce only once every 24 hours, a much slower rate that would not produce the number of bacteria needed to cloud the water like that.
Also, it is very common for long established and stable tanks to get cloudy like this after water changes. This is due to the release of nutrients in the gravel when we do gravel vacumes.

[Neonshrimp]

Thank you for the information you provided. It clears up some questions I had. But can you tell me if heterotrophic bacteria are both harmful and helpful to the animals in the tank?

Thanks.

[DonD]

In and of themselves, they are neither to the aquarium inhabitants. Hopwever, their funtions make a huge difference.
As I said, these bacteria break down organic solids. If they were not there, the levels of dissolved solids in the water would reach unhealthy levels extremely quickly and casue issues. So in that sense, they are helpful to the animals.
On the flip side, if the level of organics gets too high, the population of these bacteria can get to such a level that they will consume a good amount of the O2 in the water, and cause the animals to suffocate. Granted, this is extreme, and would result from the poor care of the hobbiest, but it can and does happen.