Substrate for Soft Water Shrimp

Newjohn · Post by **Newjohn** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:04 pm

A month ago I set out to set up a Soft water tank for Shrimp.
I use several Ideas I got from members of this Forum.

I started with the White Play Sand, Silica Based
Sifted out the fine sand.
What was left was about 10lbs of coarser sand.
I used 1 qt of muratic acid, 20%
Let it Boil over night, in a well ventilated, safe area.
Rinsed the coarse sand.
Placed it in a 10gal tank.
Added R/O water.
PH was 6.82
Added a rinsed used sponge from another tank
After 1 week the Ph was a constant 6.9
Added 12 CRS
After 1 week the Ph was 6.9
Doing weekly water changes with R/O , with a Ph of 6.8
After 1 more week the PH was still 6.9
I thought I had It going good
I did not check the Ph for the next 2 week, I did do weekly water changes
After that ,I check the PH, and it went to 7.6

Where did I go wrong, besides not checking the PH weekly.

I am now going through the 10% Drops, to try and lower it slowly.

John

zapisto · Post by **zapisto** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:53 pm

well
did you Ph meter stay calibrate ?
it is not a stupid question.....

Newjohn · Post by **Newjohn** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:03 pm

zapisto

I cailibrate it once a week.

It is a PHep5

It stays pretty accurate.

John

Post by **Mustafa** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:06 pm

Don't worry about lowering it too slowly. Lower it over the course of a day back to under 7. The thing about RO water is that the PH goes up and down very easily. Things like CO2 content of the air in the room the tank is in can affect PH. If you all of a sudden let in fresh air with less CO2 in the room, the PH can shoot up in your tank.

Day and night fluctuations in PH can be significant, too, in tanks with plants and very low conductivity/TDS water (such as RO or heavily RO diluted water).

Keep checking the PH on a daily basis until you are reasonably sure that the ph is stable.

Neonshrimp · Post by **Neonshrimp** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:40 pm

I use a lot of RO water in my tank. Could you recomend adding something to stablize the pH?

Thanks.

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:48 pm

For acidic tanks the asian almond leaves seem to be pretty safe. I would not use a chemical stabilizer. What I've found is using a quartz substrate seems to work best. I'm using home depot gravel that is quartz based and treated with acid over night, the neutralized before use. Now that my tank has been running for some time and my makeup is pure R/O water I watch the pH a day after the water change and add some R/O right to adjust the hardness. Once the harness comes up the pH comes up. My system now tends to drop rather than rise.

The bacteria in the system seem to regulate the pH once the cycle get going.

Post by **Mustafa** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:03 pm

badflash wrote:My system now tends to drop rather than rise.

The bacteria in the system seem to regulate the pH once the cycle get going.

Yes, in mature systems the PH tends to drop due to natural acidification (humic and tannic acids) and the nitrification process (nitric acid). In that case water changes drive the ph back up slightly.

As for the almond leaves, they tend to darken the water quite a bit if they are not soaked for a few weeks first. The humic/tannic acids and other organics that these leaves release tend to also have adverse affects on the shrimp...just because there is a lot of it in these leaves and the aquarium is a closed system (as opposed to a river). That's why I use oak leaves instead.

Newjohn · Post by **Newjohn** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:27 pm

Mustafa
The reason I was lowering the PH slowly, was there are still Shrimp in the Tank.
And I did not want to PH shock them.

John

zapisto · Post by **zapisto** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:33 pm

Newjohn wrote:zapisto

I cailibrate it once a week.

It is a PHep5

It stays pretty accurate.

John

sorry john, i did not want to insult you.
i was just asking a question who sometime lot of people just forget a little details.

what mustafa say about PH , i see this often.
and it is also true that a well old establish tank will be easier to maintain at low ph than a fairly new tanks.

i use to (and continue to) breed fish who need very low Ph and very soft water like apistogramma.
indian almond leaves make me happy most of the time , not to drop the ph , that's uptopy, but certainly to maintain it low in the long run.
i prefer it more than peat for multiple reason also.
instead of usual use, i use my almond in my water container for water change, with 50 tank at home , i can avoid the problem mustafa just mention, because i have a high circulation of water in this tank (100g).
water dont stay in contact with the leave more then 72 hours usually 48h
thanks

Newjohn · Post by **Newjohn** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:56 pm

zapisto

There was no insult taken.

I did not what to come acrossed as insulted.

I know there are alot of new members and visitors to this site.
And I like to repeat information, that I myself, have learned from other
Posts.

Like
What type of PH meter has worked well for other members. Phep5

The need to calibrate your equipment, for accurate readings.
"Just like you asked me .
I do mine once a week. It may not be needed as often.

With all the information I received from this post, I am sure I will get the "Soft water Thing" under control.

John

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:19 pm

Newjohn wrote:Mustafa
The reason I was lowering the PH slowly, was there are still Shrimp in the Tank.
And I did not want to PH shock them.

John

I find it better to change pH in one shot rather than a bunch of little ones. The shrimp seem to take one big shock about the same as a little shock, so lowering slowly is actually shocking them more.

Newjohn · Post by **Newjohn** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:20 pm

badflash

That is very good to know.

John

Kenshin · Post by **Kenshin** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:39 pm

I agree with badflash, because I did the same thing and the shrimps are alright even now.

Newjohn · Post by **Newjohn** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:01 pm

Everyone
Thank You for the information.

My tank is starting to settle down already. I did one heavy dose.
And the Ph only rises .3 over night instead of .7 .

I will just have to keep a eye on it.

One more Question.

What is the best substrate ?
Fine or course silica base sand ?

In need to set up another tank, and want to get started as soon as posible.
So I can get it settle down.

Thank You in advance for any information
John

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:21 pm

I no longer use sand, I use course pea-sized quartz gravel. I get it from Home Depot, a brand called Vigoro Pea Pebbles. It is in the landscaping area and sells for arounf $2.50 for a 30# bag. I rinse this in an acid bath to remove any carbonates for a soft water tank, then rinse it really well before adding to a new tank. I use about a 1.5" bed over my under gravel filters. The shrimplets can't get through it and it does not block the flow. With sand I get nothing but trouble with grit in my pumps, and the stuff turns to concrete after a while.