Crayfish Lovin'

FISH WORLD ERIE · Post by **FISH WORLD ERIE** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:12 pm

Another dwarf cray that I am working with. So far no babies or eggs just crayfish Lovin'. I will post the name of them later. Can anyone tell what they are. A correct answer will put you at the head of the crayfish class.

Jason
FISH WORLD ERIE

YuccaPatrol · Post by **YuccaPatrol** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:26 pm

C. chapalanus would be my best guess without seeing the first pleopod of the form I male.

Really neat pics!

Post by **Mustafa** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:27 pm

Procambarus hinei.

Good luck on those! I worked with them for almost two years and never saw an ovigerous female. They almost constantly mate but nothing ever comes out of the mating (no eggs anyway). Then I did some research on them and it turns out that they are most likely a species that lays eggs when dug in during the dry period.

Good luck on those...it would really be great if we could establish an aquarium strain of these guys that does not need a "dry period" as P. hinei is one of the most interesting and peaceful crayfish I have ever kept (constantly active, too, and not hiding much). And, of course, it's one of the few dwarf Procambarus species, generally staying under 2 inches.

I have given up on them for now....

YuccaPatrol · Post by **YuccaPatrol** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:34 pm

Upon closer inspection, I think I am wrong as the abdomen narrows too much. I recently saw some photos of C. chapalanus with similar markings, but I do have all of the Cambarellus species on my brain in a big way, so its hard for me to imagine that there are other crays out there!

Post by **Mustafa** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:37 pm

Jason, do me a favor and post the pictures underneath each other instead of right next to each other. That way the pictures won't stretch the whole forum and things will remain easily readable withour scrolling. I fixed the above pictures and the pictures in the blue crayfish thread for you already. If you have trouble doing that...let me know and I'll help you.

FISH WORLD ERIE · Post by **FISH WORLD ERIE** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:56 pm

Sorry I did not now I did that. I will make sure they do not touch again. You did get the crays right. They are Hinei. And I did read that too about needing a dry period. I figure I would try straight water and see what happens. They lock up constanly. But no eggs.
Maybe another approach is needed. I thought about setting up a new tank for them with a land mass at one side. So they can climb out of the water and dig their own breeding hole. I would put artificial caves and capped pvc in the land side. I thought about using a 40 breeder to do this. maybe when I find some time I will experiment.

Post by **Mustafa** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:18 am

I don't think they just leave the water to breed. I think there has to be a stimulus for them to dig themselves in. The stimulus would be decreasing water level. So, in essence...probably the best thing would be to have a tank with very deep sand-clay type of substrate where you gradually decrease the water level until there is barely any water left. That will simulate the natural change of seasons in their habitats as the floodplains in the south, where these guys can be found, also dry out periodically.

That's a lot of work for me at this point (especially since I don't really have the space for this now), but you might want to give it a shot.

FISH WORLD ERIE · Post by **FISH WORLD ERIE** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:55 pm

Do you think there would be a great amount of water in their dugouts?

Or would they be dry. I have 2 males and 4 females. I can take a pair and set up a 20 long tank. Fill it with 5 inches of clay and sand and let it drop naturally as water evaporates. And see what happens. Anybody have any other advice before I try this out? Things to add to the tank?
Different substrate?

Jason

YuccaPatrol · Post by **YuccaPatrol** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:34 pm

I think it is worth a try, but the problem may be that some species of crayfish dig burrows that are many feet deep, often burrowing down to the water table. This could be anywhere from a few inches to many feet deep.

I'd suggest figuring out what they typical depth of their burrow are before trying to recreate suitable breeding conditions.

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:35 pm

Just the common sense stuff. See if there is something published on their natural habitat. Often there is some incredible research on certain species of crays and shrimp that give you what you need. Since these are native to the souther US there should be some serious publications on them. I found some stuff doing a google, but you needed to pay to read it.

YuccaPatrol · Post by **YuccaPatrol** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:33 pm

badflash wrote:I found some stuff doing a google, but you needed to pay to read it.

If you have a university or college nearby, you should be able to go to the library and access their subscriptions to a wide range of scholarly journals online.

Post by **Mustafa** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:33 pm

FISH WORLD ERIE wrote:Do you think there would be a great amount of water in their dugouts?

Or would they be dry. Jason

They need to have some water to keep their gills wet and breathe as they don't have lungs, so I'd say they can't live in totally dry dugouts. If you're using 5 inches of substrate...I'd leave the bottom 1-2 inches soaking wet even if the top dries out. However, as Yuccapatrol pointed out, they *might* need more depth to dig, so you might want to add a few more inches of substrate if the 5 inches don't work out (or just add more to begin with).

As for letting the water naturally evaporate...I'd probably not do that. If you are using tap water, then the the concentration of minerals is doing to increase as the water evaporates...i.e. the remaining water will get harder and harder. The crays don't usually have this problem in nature as floodplains either have rainwater or rainwater mixed with some river water....either way, very very soft. You might want to try both the evaporation and the siphoning the water out method and see what triggers their digging instinct.

Whatever substrate you choose...you want to make sure that it's stable enough for the crays to build caves in it without the substrate "caving in" on them. I suggested mixing clay with sand for that purpose. You probably want to compact the substrate a little for the same reason. That's really all I can think of at this point.

As for scientific publicatons...there is really not that much published about Procambarus hinei...unfortunately...maybe that's because it has a very limited distribution (i.e. it's actually a very rare crayfish).

FISH WORLD ERIE · Post by **FISH WORLD ERIE** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:14 pm

I did some searches myself and did not come up with any useful info. I could also use a 20 tall and keep the depth 10 inches. I couldn't imagine them digging too deep. They are only around 2 inches. Well I will set the tank up after the catfish convention this year. I am still getting ready for that. Any advice please feel free to offer.
Thanks for everything so far everyone.

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:19 am

Did you see this?
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0003-0 ... size=LARGE

Mustafa-
If these are "mud bugs" as some of my friends call them, and burrow in mud, wouldn't the water be mineral saturated already?

FISH WORLD ERIE · Post by **FISH WORLD ERIE** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:49 am

I looked at the page you suggeted and it said I was restricted from accessing info because I was not connected to the institution.