Does size matter?

JK · Post by JK » Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:20 pm

I was wondering if anyone has any observations on whether the size of the aquarium has any effect on the ultimate size shrimps obtain.

I have what I believe are probably Indian Dwarf shrimps , but mine have only ever managed a maximum of 20mm for adult females. Could the reason be the tiny 30cm x 20cm x 20cm tank they have lived and bred in for the last five years?

Neonshrimp · Post by **Neonshrimp** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:28 pm

Hi JK, I have a larger breeding tank and a small display tank and I have seen the opposite with my cherry shrimp. I think my shimp are larger in my smaller tank because I feed them proportionately more per shrimp. Also, I think that in a breeding tank there is much more shrimp per area and they compete for food. The waste accumulation may also play a big role in inhibiting shrimp growth as well as health. This is what I have observed, tell me what you think

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:08 pm

It depends on the shrimp. Large shrimp will be restricted, but small shrimp like yours will be limited by density.

Newjohn · Post by **Newjohn** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:37 pm

I have to agree with badflash

In my breeding tank, I have hundreds of RCS, and they really never grow to there max size.
Until I put a few in another tank. And then the few in the new tank, start growing again.

The young RCS in my 125gal out grow , the young RCS in the 30gal.
The grow at least twice as fast.

John

JK · Post by JK » Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:03 pm

Mmm, seems like good basic husbandry and appropriate feeding is more the issue.

I guess that around 30 little shrimps of assorted ages, in just 12 litres is actually quite a few.

Recently I have started feeding mine twice a day on Tetra Prima granules, (4 to be precise) the net result seems to be a minor population explosion in the making. Every female is carrying

. It may just be coincidence, but I'm sure they are showing more colour than ever before. I raised some quite young discus to adulthood on Prima and the colours were spectacular. I wonder if it does the same for shrimps?

Cheers everyone.

Newjohn · Post by **Newjohn** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:16 pm

JK
With a minor population explosion, You will have more little ones than you can count.
Then all of these will grow up and have babies, and so on and so on.

I hope you have more tanks to transfer, your increasing population.

Remember, with a small tank, the water quality can turn bad really fast.
Make sure you keep up on your water changes.

As for color,
My RCS show there best color when they can feed on Micr-organism's and Bio-film.

Good Luck
John

The Fisherman · Post by **The Fisherman** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:51 pm

Hmmm, sounds like the same type of "stunting" you will see in fish. Where the fish only grow to a certain size, before they start "stunting", if inside a too small tank. I know this subject can be a bit complicated...Some have said the organs continue to grow, even when the body stops, which will eventually kill the fish. I don't know if that has been proven though. I beleive there is also a point where, the fish becomes so severly stunted, that even placement into a bigger tank will not cause it to grow larger.

I don't know how accurate all that is, I know its been argued everywhich way for some time now. I know that most of that applys to puffers. I just thought it would/might apply to shrimp as well.

-John

FISH WORLD ERIE · Post by **FISH WORLD ERIE** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:37 pm

I think all water creatures release these phermones that stunt growth.You really notice it on shrimp and fish that you cram together. The phermones are specie specific. They will only affect the specie that is releasing it. For example 100 convict cichlids crammed in a 20 tall will be stunted unless you do water changes everyday. But if there is one Jack dempsey cichlid in the tank with them he will not be affected by the convict phermone. He will continue to grow unstunted by the convict phermone. The phermone only affects the creature that releases it.

The more cherry shrimp you have in one tank the more phermones will be released. For example if you breed in a 10 gallon tank and have 100 cherry shrimp in this tank they will grow slower then 6 in another 10 gallon tank. The 6 that have been seperated will not fill the tank with phermones as fast as the 100 in the other tank. These 6 shrimp will grow twice as fast and will reach a larger size then the other 100.

So the bigger tank you use also affects this. It takes more phermones in the water before it affects them. So the bigger the tank the better potential your shrimp have to grow at a faster pace. Water changes also affect the phermones a great deal. The more water changes you do the more phermones you get out of the water before they can actually affect the shrimp.

I noticed this tremendously when I downsized my red claw shrimp colony from a 33 long to a 15 gallon. They do not grow as fast now. I do water changes once a week.

Also I noticed this on my cherry shrimp. I use to use 2 1/2 gallon tanks and 5 gallon tanks. I upgrade to a 15 gallon tank for my cherrys and now they are exploding in poulation and growth.

I also notice this phermone affect on my fish.

I hope this info helps.

Jason

ToddnBecka · Post by **ToddnBecka** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:21 pm

Now I'm wondering whether activated carbon would filter out some of the chemical compounds that may reduce growth rate. If I had a couple or spare tanks, I'd test it to see if there was any difference. Daily water changes should have an influence on that as well. Shrimp in the wild are never confined to such a small volume of water, and in flowing water any chemicals produced would simply be washed away. It seems more likely that other factors would contribute to (or limit) growth rate , such as available O2, food, etc.

Neonshrimp · Post by **Neonshrimp** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:53 pm

From personal experience more frequent water changes has a positive influence on shrimp health and growth in my tanks.

FISH WORLD ERIE · Post by **FISH WORLD ERIE** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:35 am

More food does make a dirrerence but that goes hand in hand with more water changes. The more you feed the faster the water fowls and hence the more water changes you do.

Jason

badflash · Post by **badflash** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:55 am

ToddnBecka wrote:Now I'm wondering whether activated carbon would filter out some of the chemical compounds that may reduce growth rate.

I've found that carbon is just a waste of money in a tank. The stuff it removes isn't the stuff that is causing a problem in a cycled tank.

crazie.eddie · Post by **crazie.eddie** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:42 am

badflash wrote:
ToddnBecka wrote:Now I'm wondering whether activated carbon would filter out some of the chemical compounds that may reduce growth rate.
I've found that carbon is just a waste of money in a tank. The stuff it removes isn't the stuff that is causing a problem in a cycled tank.

I agree. Unless you're trying to remove meds, then there's really no use for it.

Also, regarding the hormones issue on growth. I did think it was possible, but now after observing fishes, I'm not sure. I do notice that the more dominant fish, gets first dibs on the food and normally eats until it's full and the others get the left overs. The dominant fish, therefore, grows bigger and faster compared to the other fish.

I'm not sure if there is a dominance order with shrimp, but I also think that the more healthier food they eat, the bigger they get. Basically, good food along with clean water, should provide healthier, better shrimp.

Neonshrimp · Post by **Neonshrimp** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:40 pm

I'm not sure if there is a dominance order with shrimp, but I also think that the more healthier food they eat, the bigger they get. Basically, good food along with clean water, should provide healthier, better shrimp.

I have observed dominance in my shrimp tank and it is usually the larger shrimp showing their dominance at feeding time. I also agree with you about the requirements for healthier, better shrimp.

The Fisherman · Post by **The Fisherman** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:38 am

badflash wrote:
ToddnBecka wrote:Now I'm wondering whether activated carbon would filter out some of the chemical compounds that may reduce growth rate.
I've found that carbon is just a waste of money in a tank. The stuff it removes isn't the stuff that is causing a problem in a cycled tank.

Yeah, Carbon is really only helpful in a saltwater tank, to absorb the poisons that corals release. Carbon is almost more of a pain then a help in a freshwater tank.

-John