underground vs. sponge filter.. which works better for you?

[aberfitch]

I have mostly been using side bio tank filters for fish and sponge filters with shrimp for about 7 years now but I am reading a lot of pro CRS breeders using underground filters with the plant soil. I usually have a bare tank to breed shrimp. I am setting up a tank for CRS and I know the importance of soil for CRS but not sure about using an underground filter (old fasioned filter with bubbles on each side) What is your take on this subject? any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!!

[Newjohn]

aberfitch
I myself prefer to use sponge filters, they are not as easy on the eyes if you want a show tank.
But, there is always something growing on them for the Shrimp to feed on.

From what I understand, The substrate most CRS Hobbyist / Breeders use is to maintain a constant PH.

I have found that it does not really matter what the substrate is.
It depends more on how clean the water is.
Mustafa spoke briefly on this in another thread.

When I first started keeping CRS, I used the " Recommended " substrate.
And found out that it did not maintain a constant PH.

John

[Neonshrimp]

badflash has posted some of his experiences with undergravel filters and you can try asking him more about it.

[Guba]

It depends on your preference. I've been keeping fish and inverts since before there were any gravel vacuums. Gravel vacuums have A LOT to do with keeping your tank healthy. If you have an undergravel filter all the mulm (the decomposed stuff) won't be easily removed. However, sponge filters aren't that appealing to look at, as mentioned. I prefer gravel bottoms and sponge filters... personal experience. It's simple and easy to maintain, nothing but a winning combo. Personally, I think under gravel filters are going by way of the dinosaur. They do the filtering job, and you don't really have to mess with them, but when it comes time for really getting the tank cleaned up, as the saying goes...it's time to pay the piper! My vote- SPONGE FILTER. Too many plusses, not enough conns.

[Baby_Girl]

another vote for sponge filters here.

As Newjohn said, they provide an excellent surface for shrimp to graze on. There are ALWAYS shrimp eating on my sponge filters because of the stuff that grows on the sponges, as well as whatever gets stuck to it from the small amount of suction it generates. I can't imagine keeping shrimp without sponge filters.

In addition, I personally believe sponge filters to be more effective at biological filtration than UGF's. They have more surface area, are less likely to get clogged, and easier to clean. Once the mulm under the gravel plates gets too thick, circulaton decreases along with oxygen levels, and those nitrifying bacteria under there can die and start producing even MORE ammonia.

I used to have UGF"s back in the day when I was a kid, and just starting out in the tank-keeping hobby. I remember taking out all the gravel and cleaning under the plates. The idea struck me once, years after the tanks had been running. Well, one look at all the mulm and crap under the plates and I nearly fainted. After that, it became a yearly ritual to clean under there. Blegh - messy, time-consuming, and not very efficient. Besides, every time I cleaned it out probably took with it a large portion of the nitrifying bacteria.

To clean sponge filters and prevent them from clogging, all I do is remove the sponge every few weeks and squeeze it a few times in a bowl of old tank water. Voila! Good as new, with no interruption in the cycle.

[badflash]

I'd like to make a few points about UGF's.

1st they have much more surface area than a spong filter, not less. The gravel is the filter and so the surface of each pebble adds to the filtration.

The goop under the filter is the beneficial bacteria. Unless it clogs your uptake tube, there is no need to remove it.

A well aged UGF also can de-nitify water. This requires a deeper gravel bed, but after about 6 months of operation it starts doing it. The deeper gravel is needed to remove the oxygen before it gets to the bottom. If you are using a power head or something besides bubbles to move the water the flow will be too high and this won't happen.

I have not broken down my 40 gallon UGF in over 2 years. About once a month I do a good vacuum with the water change, but that is about it.

I have 2 tanks I run sponge filters in. I'll probably go back to UGF or HOB with a sponge filter over the intake. Those tanks don't do as well for me.

[Guba]

The goop under the gravel plate is technically called "mulm". Mulm does not provide any beneficial filtering, and has already been broken down by bacteria. Furthermore, our aquatic inhabitants, whatever they are, do better with it removed, after all thats why the gravel vacuum was invented. There may be some good guy bacteria in with it (I have used it to break in new tanks), but as baby_girl pointed out, if it gets too deep it can cause some problems. I do gotta go with badflash though when it comes to surface area for bacteria, UG filters have way more.

[badflash]

Guba- I have to dissagree with you on the mulm. Mulm is the undecomposed fish wastes and other solid matter that accumulates in the aquarium as a fine, brownish, fluffy matterial. The stuff I'm talking about is slimey and is orange.

I have many types of filters. I have ball filters wet/dry type and the same stuff in my undergravel filters are in them. Call it what you want, but that is what is doing the heavy lifting. It is quite true that if you get too much it can clog bup the works, but that is easy to fix.

I am currently looking into a new sort of filter sytem that is called kaldnes. This is a self cleaning high surface area filter system. Seems very cool. The same goop grows on them. Do a google and you'll see pics. I'd post links but they are commercial. You'll see the same orange colored glop.

When I start a new tank I transfer a bunch of this stuff to it and I get an instant cycle. It never fails.

[Guba]

I disagree with your coment that it's not decomposed. There may be some undecomposed matter in with it, but I beleave most of it is decomposed. You have my curiosity about the orange slimey stuff. I have never seen anything like that in my aquariums and the only thing that comes to mind when I try to picture it are places/spots next to a creek bed that have some natural iron ore exposed.

[Mustafa]

I am currently looking into a new sort of filter sytem that is called kaldnes. This is a self cleaning high surface area filter system. Seems very cool. The same goop grows on them. Do a google and you'll see pics. I'd post links but they are commercial. You'll see the same orange colored glop.

Sounds interesting and promising! Thanks for the tip!

[Neonshrimp]

I am currently looking into a new sort of filter sytem that is called kaldnes. This is a self cleaning high surface area filter system. Seems very cool. The same goop grows on them. Do a google and you'll see pics. I'd post links but they are commercial. You'll see the same orange colored glop.

Sounds interesting and promising! Thanks for the tip!

Thanks badflash, I will check it out.

[jeej]

With regards to sponge filters being unsightly...

Mine is black and at the back left of my tank. With the way in which I have arranged my tank, with various rocks, wood and plants, people never really notice it. It is actually pretty discreet, given its size and does not draw your eyes away from what you should be looking at.

[Neonshrimp]

Like jeej stated, I too feel that there are many ways we can incorporate/blend the sponge filter into the tank.

I just read about the kaldnes filters and it does sound interesting but there will always be need for removal of large waste matter through mechanical filters or other suction devices (gravel cleaners or turkey basters in my case).

[Guba]

I just read about the kaldnes filters and it does sound interesting but there will always be need for removal of large waste matter through mechanical filters or other suction devices (gravel cleaners or turkey basters in my case).A little kindness goes a long way
Neonshrimp
Master Shrimp Nut


Posts: 2138
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Location: California, USA
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You definately have my curiosity! In what situation are you using a turkey baster? Is the tank that small?

[Neonshrimp]

Yes, it works very well for nano tanks 5 gallons or smaller. Just shoot a jet of water into the gravel and then suction up the waste that is stirred up.