Master Shrimp Killer

[shwin]

I should be dubbed a master shrimp killer. I've never been able to keep shrimp alive for long. I used to have freshwater tanks during college and my Amano and ghost shrimp died nearly instantly.

Fast forward six years later in a new home in a new town. I decided I wanted seakmonkies then I decided on an ecosphere. I did my research and decided on making my own home sweet home for Opae Ula. I used white sand substrate, a sea fan, and a nugget piece of coral. I used instant ocean reef salt and tap water treat with Seachem Prime. I let this sit for about a month just to let things settle. I buy my Opae Ula. I acclimated them over three days by adding 10mL to their bottle twice a day and they are doing great!! (they were shipped to me in an Aquafina bottle!!) Then I introduce them to their new home. The next day they are spasming and jerking and going belly up. I freaked out and did a near total water change with distilled water with reef salt at the same SG.. THEY KEPT DYING and within three days all but three are dead. One of the survivors only has one claw. I tested the water and everything was perfect the nitrates were 5 and zero copper.

A year later the three are still alive and a seemingly perfect. Well What the hell happened?????? They are beautifully red too. So I moved again and decided to try again. I bought a five gal tank and used instant ocean and distilled water. In it is crush shell substrate with a volcano made of lava rock. There's a few Marimo balls. In the middle of the volcano is a sponge filter. I have five nerite snails. I let it cycle for eight weeks. Bought 50 shrimp thinking I couldnt have done better.. Next morning I could not find them. I figured I gave them that great of a habitat they are hiding in the rocks. It's been five days now and they ONLY time I see one is one in the throes of death like last year. But it is usually just one at a time. So far I've watched three die. I tested the water and the water parameters are fine again.

What am I doing wrong here? Is it the salt???? Why do so many die but a few live?

[KenCotigirl]

Prior to adding shrimp did you check for amonia and nitrites? When did you add the snails? Were these brackish snails? Saltwater? Fresh? Was there algae growth or biofilm on the glass? When did you add the Marimo balls? I would remove them. What exactly did you test for? Salinity, pH, amonia, nitrites. ph should not be an issue because the instant ocean should leave a pH of 8.2 +/-. Salinity using instant ocean at half strength should be about 1.011. If the snails died and the marimo balls are dieing then that could cause an amonia spike.

[shwin]

When I test water parameters, I test the following I just didn't mention it because copper and nitrates seem to be the first question. I also took a sample to the lfs for comparison for the pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.
Copper
Chloramine and chlorine
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate
pH
KH
Salinity

First tank (massive causalties last year as soon as shrimp were introduced, only three lived and remain to be alright to this date):
The snails were not in the first tank that crashed.
The marimo balls were added a few months after the shrimp massive death and left three alive. The three enjoy the marimo balls and the balls are very green so I don't think they are an issue. It is an algae afterall

• Copper=0
  Chloramine and chlorine=0
  Ammonia=0
  Nitrite=0
  Nitrate=0
  pH=I believe it is above 7.6, the color is always at the max
  KH=don't remmber, I stopped testing because I ran out of reagent. I know the water was hard back when i still had the kit and considering it has both a seafan and a piece of coral in I assume it is still hard.
  Salinity 1.010

The second tank (deaths likely in process):
The current snails are brackish water Olive Nerites. They have not died and show no signs of illness in the now nine weeks since the tank was started. It is the shrimp that are dying. The marimo balls I took out of the first tank and plopped in this tank when I first began it. Yes, I believe there is biofilm because I can see clearly where the snail have tidied up. There is algae in the form of hair algae, the marimo balls, and brown algae.

• Copper=0
  Chloramine and chlorine=0
  Ammonia=0
  Nitrite=0
  Nitrate=5
  pH=I believe it is above 7.6, the color is always at the max
  KH=Didn't test it because my kit ran out. PetSmart said it is "hard" but didn't give me a number
  Salinity 1.014

[Mech]

I have just set my opae ula tank up to start cycling before I add my shrimps but I do keep fresh water shrimps so I'm not sure if I can help but the things I would look at are and in no particular order for my shrimp and maybe can help with yours.

- Water source, what water are you using.. Idealy you want pure Ro water with nutrients mixed back in.
- Tank cycled, is the tank cycled? You should be getting no ammonia or nitrites but should have a small amount of nitrates as this is the by product which YOU remove with water changes.
- Water changes, I know this won't really apply to opae ula but how often and what % do you change each time.
- could there be pesticides on the plants?
- is the tank matured enough? A cycled tank may still be to new for shrimp
- food, what are you feeding and how much?
- salt, what type of salt are you using and how much.. How are you checking the SG?
- TDS - what is the total dissolved solids in your clean water you add?
- substrate/gravel/ornaments, what type of substrate do you have, where did it come from and how did you clean it? Same with ornaments.
- do you have a lid on the tank? If not are you 100% sure no cleaning products or air freshners in the air are in the same room contaminating the shrimp?
- temperature, what temperature is your tank and what temp is your room, does it fluctuate alot?
- acidity, what pH is the tank?
- hardness of water
- acclimatising, you should be drip acclimatising them over 4 hours about a drip Every few seconds. Easily done with a pipe and a adjustable tap that you can buy for fish tank setup.
- tank mates, what tank mates do the shrimp have?

I'm sure I've missed a few things but this is where I'd look first...

But if I was you I'd setup the tank and leave it for a month or two, test ammonia, nitrites and nitrates until you get your spikes and it clears/drops off leaving just nitrate which should be a small level, if not do a partial water change to bring it down. Make sure your water is pure and Ro as I've read some places use copper piping in distilleries for making distilled water.

The fact you shrimp freaked out could be bad water or bad acclimatisation.

Hope this helps.

Ps wrote this on my phone so expect mistakes :p


Oh one more thing, if you are using test strips put them in the bin and use a liquid test kit, a small tip when it comes to the nitrate test is to shake and bang the bottles before you pour them as the ingredients can settle to the bottom of the bottle like glue and this will give you false readings.

[shwin]

I am also utilizing my iPhone to type up these posts and I keep finding autocorrections that are incorrect!

Mech:

- Water source, what water are you using.. Idealy you want pure Ro water with nutrients mixed back in.

In the first tank it was tap water then I swapped out for distilled when they all started to die. The second tank is distilled water.

- Tank cycled, is the tank cycled? You should be getting no ammonia or nitrites but should have a small amount of nitrates as this is the by product which YOU remove with water changes.

The first tank I have never changed the water in the last year since my inital reaction to change the water when all the shrimp died. I periodically check and all levels are 0. The second tank the nitrate is 5. ammonia and nitrite is 0. I know it cycled because I tested through the progression of the climb in teh ammonia, then the nitrite, then the nitrate.

- Water changes, I know this won't really apply to opae ula but how often and what % do you change each time.

I don't change the water except for when all the shrimp died in teh first tank in the first three days

- could there be pesticides on the plants?

In th first tank there were no plants when the shrimp were introduced and then died. Technically none of them have plants, Marimo balls are algae. Regardless, the Marimo balls were introduced to the first tank well after the massive die off. I took them out of the first tank and put them in the second tank when I set it up. I doubt it is the issue since my three survivors survived with the Marimo balls. I've had them in an unused wine decanter for years so it wasn't a new "plant" when introduced

- is the tank matured enough? A cycled tank may still be to new for shrimp

Not sure? The first tank I didn't cycle (its a lil one gal vase) and the second tank I cycled for 8 weeks before introducing the shrimp.

- food, what are you feeding and how much?

In teh first tank they started dying before I fed them but I feed my three survivors from the first tank with powdered spirulina. I put a chopstick tip dipped in powder into teh 5 gal to see if it would coax some out but no luck.

- salt, what type of salt are you using and how much.. How are you checking the SG?

I have an instant ocean hydrometer. Instant Ocean Reef Crystals Sea Salt I think, its the orange box

- TDS - what is the total dissolved solids in your clean water you add?

Huh?

- substrate/gravel/ornaments, what type of substrate do you have, where did it come from and how did you clean it? Same with ornaments.

Tank #1: natural sand sold for bettas. just rinsed it. The sea fan I didn't do anything with it other than soaked it for a few days untiL i had everyting together. Tank #2, crushed shells and lava rocks were boiled, water changed, then socked for maybe a day until I had the distilled water and the tank where I wanted it.

- do you have a lid on the tank? If not are you 100% sure no cleaning products or air freshners in the air are in the same room contaminating the shrimp?

I don't use air freshners. Tank #1 has a 1-1.5" opening and its on a shelf even with my head when I stand. It looks like a fat tear drop. Tank #2 only had a hood on it starting on Week 6 of cycling.

- temperature, what temperature is your tank and what temp is your room, does it fluctuate alot?

According to the temp and humidity guage in the room it ranged from 68-70 degrees.

- acidity, what pH is the tank?

Tank #1 was 7.2 when the shrimp where introduced and then died. Tank #2 I believe is >7.8 it goes to teh darkest blue straight away.

- hardness of water

Tank #1, don't remember and my test kit has since ran out, when had my water tested at PetSmart last Friday they said it was "Very hard" Not helpful

- acclimatising, you should be drip acclimatising them over 4 hours about a drip Every few seconds. Easily done with a pipe and a adjustable tap that you can buy for fish tank setup.

Tank #1 was acclimated over three days by introducing 10mL twice a day to their own water (they were shipped to me in less than 50cc of water inside an Aquafina bottle). Thank #2 was acclimated over three hours

- tank mates, what tank mates do the shrimp have?

Tank #1 none Tank #2 Nerite Snails.

See my other comment about copper, I tested for copper it was negative. Also has LFS test it and it was none. I don't use test strips.

[Mech]

hmm that has me stumped then

From your answers nothing really says you have done anything wrong. TDS matters with fresh water shrimp but Opae ula can be in pretty much any level and live happily. this is measured with a TDS pen just incase you wanted to know

i doubt the temperature will be the cause either if you live where its mild etc... what is the tank made from? is it glass or plastic? im trying to put some ideas out here

[shwin]

Maybe it is the way I put them into the tanks???? What is the" right" way?? The first tank I spent three days acclimating them and they were fine but once I put them in the tank THEN they died. I cut open the Aquafina bottle they were in and poured it into the vase. The second tank I poured them from the bag to the tank after three hours of acclimation. It makes no sense they all die except for a select few and then those few have been doing great. (talking about the first tank there. The second rank remains go be seen)

On the bright side I actually saw a normal Opae ula grazing on a Marimo ball this morning!!!! It was SUPER pale. I'm gonna give them a weeder teeny bit of spirulina tonight with the light off to see if I can coax anymore out. It would be nice if I could see its remaining 40 some siblings.

[KenCotigirl]

Shwn I really cannot add anything. It appears you followed the correct protocol. The second tank maybe perfectly ok. I added shrimp to a new tank about two weeks ago. They were very active that day but the following morning they all disappeared. They were hiding in the lava rocks. They have just recently come out of hiding. A few dead shrimp may not mean a problem. The bagging and shipping process may have caused their demise. Feeding is not recommended. Wait a few weeks.

[shwin]

Ok one more thought. I know heavy metals are bad for inverts how about magnesium ?? Instant Ocean Reef Salt has added magnesium in in

Thanks for your help Kencotigirl!

[KenCotigirl]

If you check IO vs IO Reef from their web site here are differences which would hurt shrimp.

reef salt
-Extra Calcium to help ensure the growth of large and small polyp stony corals as well as coralline algae
-Extra Trace Elements to provide an additional measure of vital nutrients
-Extra Vitamins to ensure vigorous growth and survival of corals, anemones and other invertebrates in a captive environment
-Metal Detoxifier - to neutralize traces of heavy metal often present in domestic water supplies

[shwin]

Crap. Maybe that is the problem. I didn't know there were two different IO salts

[KenCotigirl]

SORRY!!! What did I say? I meant to say the differences will NOT hurt shrimp.

Ken

[shwin]

Guess what. I feel like an idiot. In effort to get more algae growing I've been keeping the light on from when I wake up till I go to bed. This week I bought a timer for the Christmas tree and figured I'd buy another for the aquarium light. When the light turns on there are PLENTY of Opae Ula!!!! Then they slowly go hide when the light is on. I worried for nothing.

After the massive die off the first time I tried a Opae Ula tank put me on red alert with this new one.

[KenCotigirl]

I like the rubble mountain with the bubbles going thru it.
Nice tank!

Ken