Anyone out there? I REALLY Need help!....

[Carolina]

Hi
For those who remember me...... I had an algae disaster..... Which was completely and quickly taken care by 3 Nerite Snails - 2 Zebra and one Black Racer.
Anyways.....
My Latest Disaster was My Java Moss got completely infested by Hair Algae - to a point that the HA was taking over my tank.
The shrimp loved the algae, as it held biofilm.... But I noticed they were getting trapped in it too..... Some of them were fighting REALLY hard to get out of it!
There is an awesome snail vendor I deal with, and he recommended a set of snails that the main diet is hair algae. I got them...... Oh boy.
They are amazing - Pictures coming - the issue? They are HUGE! and they not only eat hair algae, but they mostly clean the substrate..... which I have none. The poor dears were hanging to dear life in my tank!
So....... I had no choice - As crazy as it sounds..... I had to set up an emergency tank for the snails (I am not one to kill creatures - I can't even kill a bug!). And manually clean the algae from the original tank.

Tank 1- the original Tank:
I removed the java fern. Removed the rock it was attached to it, took every single strand of HA I could see..... Cleaned the sponge filter, Removed the marimo balls and removed the HA attached to them, pulled the HA that was attached to the lava rocks the best I could...... Cleaned the Macroalgae from HA.
Took 1 gallon of water to add to the new 10G tank I am starting to cycle = 25% water change.
There is still visible HA, but hopefully the shrimp will get rid of them - they do love it, and eat them.....
There is plenty of biofilm on the tank, so I am not going to feed this tank anytime soon.

Here are some images of the tank post clean-up.
Tank, Front View - Java Moss, NEVER AGAIN!!!


The Cave where a lot of my shrimp hide..... The top rock used to be covered in Java moss and HA. Now Hopefully with the light it will just be live rock like the others.


My shrimp love the Sponge filter - It holds biofilm and bacteria.... They are always picking at it


Luckily, everyone survived the ordeal - it was stressful for them for sure..... But they are now doing their shrimp thing and not swimming in laps like they were last night. No bodies to be found.

2- The new Tank.
This is day Three for the new tank. Unfortunately I had to put the poor snails into a completely uncycled tank.... But they are all still alive. Clearly not happy with the water quality, as they are on the glass towards to top of the tank, and these are substrate snails..... But surviving, eating, and adding bioload to the water. Not optimum, but I have to deal with the cards I was dealt.

Here is the Picture of the new tank - it's going to be very, very simple:

It's a 10G Tank. The substrate is Aragonite Sand. On the left, just a pile of red Lava Rock for the Shrimp. I added some of the micro algae from the original tank, 1 gallon of water from the original tank, the heater from the original tank (lots og algae), and 3 marimo balls that had been reproducing in the original tank.
Also A dead Coral on the right.
The light is a Finnex 20" light that's just resting on the glass cover.
The water looks a little dirty because the substrate did't settle yet.

Here is one of the Snails - I have 4 in the Tank - They are called "Black Devil Snails", or Faunus ater Snails
They are about 2" but can get to 3" long. They work on the substrate, mainly.... It makes me feel awful to see them on the glass.

Since there is no detritus in the substrate for the snails, here is how I am feeding them, so I don't polute the water. The uneaten algae wafer is very easy to remove in its entirety.


The tank is in my bedroom, and it is close to a window, but while it does get light, it does NOT get direct sunlight. My home is well shaded.

I am adding Seachem "Stability" Bacteria to the tank daily, the light is on a 12 hr cycle.....

Questions -
Has anyone done this before? Put snails in an uncycled tank? If so, how often should I feed them?
I know there are people that use fish food to cycle a tank instead of adding ammonia - clearly I am not adding ammonia as I don't want to kill the snails....... On the same token...... Without ammonia, there is no cycling.

2- I know most here are not fond of filters.... But I have seen advantages on sponge filters. In my original tank, I have it set on a low current so it doesn't bother the shrimp, but I can clearly see biofilm and as you can see in the picture above it, they really enjoy it.
I have ready it that circulating the water also helps with cycling.....
I do have a sponge filter here for a 10G tank - I will definitely add it when the shrimp comes.... My question is, do I add it now, during cycling, or just later?

Whew!
Thank you,
I hope someone can help..... I don't want to mess up this cycling..... and I don't want to kill these snails

[erica]

From my understanding of how filters work, I would put the sponge filter in now - it mostly works via the beneficial bacteria, so it gives them a place to set up. I guess they could establish in the substrate as well, but if bacteria flourished in substrates, filters wouldn't be needed. It will still take a while for the tank to cycle, but the filter won't do much until the bacteria have a chance to set up in it - so the earlier, the better!

I don't know about adding them to an uncycled tank, though, or what to do about ammonia. Wish I could help more.

[KenCotigirl]

Carolina are the snails brackish water snails? If you feel the need to feed use parboiled spinich not algae wafers. If you do feed use only one leaf. Over feeding could cause problems. If you really want a spong filter use it now.

Ken

[Carolina]

Carolina are the snails brackish water snails? If you feel the need to feed use parboiled spinich not algae wafers. If you do feed use only one leaf. Over feeding could cause problems. If you really want a spong filter use it now.

Ken

They are Brackish Water Snails.... I tried the blanched spinach.... No go. They did not like it.
I did give them Snail Jello and they like that..... The problem is that melts into the water too much. These algae wafers came from their breeder, and although they get soft, they stay together and are easy to get removed into one piece.

The problem I am having here, clearly, is that these snails are substrate snails - that's where they live and get their food from. Obviously I have no food in the substrate..... nothing for them to graze on.
So.... What would be "overfeeding"? I don't want to polute the water, but I don't want to starve them to death either.

[Carolina]

From my understanding of how filters work, I would put the sponge filter in now - it mostly works via the beneficial bacteria, so it gives them a place to set up. I guess they could establish in the substrate as well, but if bacteria flourished in substrates, filters wouldn't be needed. It will still take a while for the tank to cycle, but the filter won't do much until the bacteria have a chance to set up in it - so the earlier, the better!

I don't know about adding them to an uncycled tank, though, or what to do about ammonia. Wish I could help more.

Thanks, I will setup the filter

[KenCotigirl]

What are the size of these snails? Most snails can go long periods without food. Check with the guy who sold them to you. It maybe that Mustafa's method may not work with thes snails. They may need a higher maintenance setup.

[Carolina]

What are the size of these snails? Most snails can go long periods without food. Check with the guy who sold them to you. It maybe that Mustafa's method may not work with thes snails. They may need a higher maintenance setup.

2“-3“
Also, do you know how high the ammonia is supposed to go during a cycling? Will it hurt the cycling to do small water changes to bring it to a surviving range to these guys?

[KenCotigirl]

Carolina I performed a quick search of the snails you bought. I do not believe a population explosion is going to happen. Their larval stage needs brackish if not full salt. Also the adults are found in tidal areas which could be fresh or low brackish. Sellers are recommending fresh setups. No info for brackish setup. Check with you snail dealer on the level of ammonia and nitrates they can withstand before injury. Sorry I cannot a better answer. You could try switching the sponge filter from the cycled shrimp tank to the snail tank and visa versa. This will provide beneficial bacteria to the snails and have limited impact to the shrimp.

[Carolina]

Carolina I performed a quick search of the snails you bought. I do not believe a population explosion is going to happen. Their larval stage needs brackish if not full salt. Also the adults are found in tidal areas which could be fresh or low brackish. Sellers are recommending fresh setups. No info for brackish setup. Check with you snail dealer on the level of ammonia and nitrates they can withstand before injury. Sorry I cannot a better answer. You could try switching the sponge filter from the cycled shrimp tank to the snail tank and visa versa. This will provide beneficial bacteria to the snails and have limited impact to the shrimp.

They are Brackish snails - here is some info on them - yes, they can live and thrive on fresh water, but these snails are originally brackish snails.

"These large snails feature gorgeous, glossy shells that range in color from chocolate brown to the deepest black.
Black Devil snails are relatives to the popular Malaysian Trumpet snails, but they are more similar in shape and size to Giant Sulawesi snails.
Totally peaceful aquarium inhabitants, and totally safe for shrimp and other snails.
Feeds on leftover food or almost any kind of fish food.

Also known as Black Devil Spike Snails or Lava snails, these dark and mysterious snails are highly underrated members of the aquarium hobby. They mainly come from the brackish waters of Thailand, but can also be found in other parts of Asia. They can thrive in freshwater, but will only breed in brackish water.

These snails are quite similar to Giant Sulawesi snails in their appearance and behavior. They feature the long, whorled shells, but theirs tapers off into a sharper point and resembles a spike. Their shell color ranges from a rich chocolate brown to a beautiful, glossy black, and their bodies feature gray/black or chestnut brown colors. They are usually 2 to 3 inches in length when full grown.

Devil Black snails are more hardy and more active than Giant Sulawesi snails, having the ability to move faster throughout your aquarium. They are also able to live in colder temperatures and are known as excellent cleaners of substrate. If you have live plants in your tank, it's a good idea to keep them out of reach of these snails - they have been known to nibble on live plants.

RECOMMENDED TANK PARAMETERS:
- PH level range: 6.8 to 7.5
- Temperature range: 71 to 82 degrees Fahrenheit
- Water type: Soft to medium hard
- Additional notes: These snails are large and need room to move, so it's a good idea to avoid dense vegetation or overcrowding in your aquarium. Black Devil snails eat plant matter, fish food, and invertebrate pellets, and they have also been known to munch on plants like Java Ferns. Snails are very sensitive to copper, so watch out for copper if you use tap water in your tank."

[KenCotigirl]

No question they are brackish. Your write up however is for fresh water parameters. While the H. rubra's would most likely make good tank mates for your snails I believe they would require a higher maintenance setup.

[Carolina]

Okay...... So things have settled down quite a bit, and they are finally doing well!
Since they are substrate cleaners, and like most fish foods.... I decided to start feeding them flake fish food, making sure it sinks down to the substrate - sparingly.
I think the bacteria is also kicking in, as they are doing much better - they are eating and cleaning the substrate, climbing the rocks and the coral, and no longer just hanging for dear life on the top of the tank. Maybe the filter, oxygenating the water helped as well - not sure, who knows?
I am in no rush at all with this cycling..... My original tank is doing GREAT, so I have all the time in the world to cycle this tank well to receive the shrimp - I am thinking a few months, or when the walls, rocks, corals have a good amount of algae.
I am SUPER excited to have a tank next to my bed..... Will be thrilled to have these little creatures dancing next to me!

As for the original tank - The BEST thing I did was to remove the Java moss. Although I don't have one of those tanks where the shrimp swim 24x7.... They are out and about much more often now, swimming and grazing more, seem more relaxed... Don't know if it was the water change, or removing the moss...... or a mix or both..... But they are way better now than before.
And they are loving the rock where the moss was once placed. Only now they are grazing on it without getting trapped
Anyways..... That's my update.
Hopefully all will continue to go well with both tanks!
Thanks for your help!

[Carolina]

All the snails are doing great, and the cycling on the new tank is moving along faster than I expected. Surfaces now are starting to get covered in biofilm. The coral is completely covered already!
The snails are all on the substrate and on the rocks as they should be, great sign!

[KenCotigirl]

Great!

[Mustafa]

Although I don't have one of those tanks where the shrimp swim 24x7.... They are out and about much more often now, swimming and grazing more, seem more relaxed...

I would be worried if my shrimp were swimming around 24/7. They only do that if they are disturbed or distressed for some reason. If you ever see videos with shrimp swimming around like that it's because those shrimp have been disturbed or are distressed. Normal Supershrimp mostly walk around and pick at surfaces. Having said that, looks like your second tank is ready.

[Carolina]

Although I don't have one of those tanks where the shrimp swim 24x7.... They are out and about much more often now, swimming and grazing more, seem more relaxed...

I would be worried if my shrimp were swimming around 24/7. They only do that if they are disturbed or distressed for some reason. If you ever see videos with shrimp swimming around like that it's because those shrimp have been disturbed or are distressed. Normal Supershrimp mostly walk around and pick at surfaces. Having said that, looks like your second tank is ready.

Thanks Mustafa,
I always wondered if there was something wrong with my guys..... They seemed to be well, but were never big swimmers - more pickers than anything. I am relieved!
As for tanks #2 - I came home from a week long trip and I can definitely see the biofilm - the coral is covered, and I algae is starting to form on the glass too. I didn't expect to happen this quickly, honestly.
I do see, though, brown, almost black algae too..... But I know when I saw this in my first tank that seemed to go away after a while.....
I will wait a bit longer.
I removed the Marimo balls - hurts to kill them, but they had hair algae in them and I don't want the same nightmare in that tank.
The micro algae also seems "contaminated" - so I went ahead and placed an order from you to substitute for a new, clean one.
Thanks again!